Tim: Mom, I was thinking about Colleen last night. You really had a special relationship with her, didn't you? My daughter. Yeah. I mean, I assume all of your children you kind of have a different point of view on. Well, daughter in laws are different. Daughter in laws?  

Mom: Yeah.  

Tim: You've always felt that way, like holidays, where families go to their...

Mom: Look at Wendy now. I never see her. She's got a mother and a dad and a grandmother. She doesn't pay any attention to me.

Maybe she does at home.  

Tim: Yeah, I think she's been good with the boys and Lauren, and encourages that. You know, I give people the benefit. She's had a busy life, too.  

Mom: I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying, there's a different relationship with daughter in laws when you start to talk about Colleen. She was my daughter.

Tim: I know. I know. But even, for example, I mean, you were out there a lot in the last ten years before...  

Mom: Well, the kids had a lot to do with it, too.  

Tim: William and Timmy and Emily?  

Mom: They moved out there when Tim started high school. So they were here all those years...  

Tim: That would have been about, uh... Ninety nine. Ninety nine they moved there?

Yes. Did they live in Georgia for a while or just Rolfe? Just Rolfe.  

Mom: We visited at Christmas.  

Tim: You and Colleen and the kids? That was a weird little situation, wasn't it?  

Mom: Yeah, he, he goofed,  

Tim: I think. By taking that job? By losing his job. Did he lose his job there? Or the job here? Here. He couldn't help that, that was politics.

He was an innocent victim of that. That Steve Pigeon. You know, he just, it had nothing to do with Rolfe. It had to do with Krangel and me. Did you get him fired? Well, I didn't get him fired, but the fact that I got him hired caused him to get fired. Pigeon wanted his own people in there. So, but I'm just thinking about Colleen, you know.

You had a special relationship with her. I know she's your daughter. And I don't disrespect, uh, Maureen over that either. Maureen was right here all the time.  

Mom: And a pain in the ass.  

Tim: At times.  

Mom: But she was good to me, too.  

Tim: I'll tell you one thing about Maureen. Colleen was like an angel with her those last months.

Just like an angel. Wendy was great, too. It was great for them to... That was... There's probably no ideal way to die. But Maureen, in that setting, was pretty comfortable, I would say.  

Mom: And Wendy, I can remember being on hospice, and she insisted on taking Maureen home.  

Tim: I know. See, that's a heart, that's a big hearted thing to do, in my opinion.

You know, Margie often brings up the concept or the idea, I'm not sure how accurate this is, that Matt Toohey got Grandma Hoag out of a nursing home. True. Is that true? Where was the nursing home? Spirella. Oh, I forgot that. Was that called DeVoe? Yes. DeVoe Manor.  

Mom: Was it? Oh. We went in there on a Mother's Day, and there was some Italian woman screaming, Mama Mia, the whole time we were there.

And your father just said, she's not staying here.  

Tim: How long had she been there? Probably from January or February. Because.  

Mom: Till when?  

Tim: May. For three or four months?  

Mom: Because neither Ray or Dorothy. They gave up trying to care for her. So did my sister Mildred.  

Tim: You mean they had, they each had her in their home? Yes.

So she was bouncing around from Youngstown to Niagara Falls to the nursing home. I see. I didn't realize that.  

Mom: And we had six kids.  

Tim: 1960, what year was that? She  

Mom: died in 75, didn't she? Gee, I don't think so.  

Tim: No, she was 75. Grandma Toohey died in 64. Who died first?

You should remember when your mom died.  

Mom: Well, I haven't been thinking about it recently.  

Tim: Well, anyway.  

Mom: Grandpa died in February.  

Tim: Did she die the same year?  

Mom: Yes. Oh gosh. Because she missed him so. Isn't  

Tim: that something? Yes. You think that someone could die from that? From like, loneliness?  

Mom: She gave up living, yes.

Tim: No kidding. Gosh. It's kind of a love story in a way. Yeah. Gee. So, you brought her home? Did an ambulance bring her? Or just you bring her? Oh, we didn't have ambulances. I didn't know. No Medicaid or Medicare? No. It might have been Medicare. That came about in the 60's. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So where'd you put her?

Mom: Here. In this room? This was our bedroom. We gave it up for Mother. And we slept on the living room floor.  

Tim: Do you have a mattress or something?  

Mom: From May until, when did she?  

Tim: How long was that? July. Two or three months? Oh yes. Did she die in the house?  

Mom: No. Dr. Cassio was the doctor. And I called him one time. I remember I was washing the walls.

In fact, we had oil, we had to wash walls, and I was washing walls and thinkin. She was in the hospital, and he said I didn't want to take care of her anymore. I hated him from then on. Why would he say that? She died two weeks later.  

Tim: So she spent two, a couple of weeks in the hospital before she died? But you didn't put her in the hospital.

She needed to go for treatment or something, right?  

Mom: I couldn't. I was working. It was Maureen, your dad, taking care of her. And she couldn't. She wet herself and stuff like that.  

Tim: Yeah, that's... I remember you telling me, or being here, and Dad giving her a bath. We both did, yes. Was that upstairs? Yes. But she must have been living upstairs at the time, not from here.

No, we carried her. You carried her up to the tub? Good heavens.  

Mom: She was, her skin hanging.  

Tim: What was her mental state? Was she, uh, competent to speak? Yes. Yeah. Did she, I mean, and that's so strange. I don't remember that. I don't think I was home at the time. I don't know. I'm going to look up what her date of birth, date of death was.

You don't remember the year.

Mom: Let me think. I have so many anniversaries.  

Tim: I know. People don't remember dates of death as much as they do birthdates. But some you do, obviously. Well, let me know when you think of it.